MyDD :: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This Process Now?

by coonbug on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This Proc (none / 0)

Even if she dropped out now the voting wouldn't stop. That was my point.

And based on how well Obama is polling in PA even after she spent six weeks trying to tear him down, I think he can survive her much much milder tone in FL and MI for a couple weeks.

Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:55:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Three weeks (2.00 / 2)

This all ends in three weeks. Just let it play out.

Clinton will show a lot more class than some of her supporters around here will show, and the party will unify in the coming months.

Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:34:24 PM EST

Re: Three weeks (2.00 / 1)

Map I would love it to play out that way, but it would help if she admitted defeat but expressed her desire to finish the contests.

I was on your side with this one Map until last night I kept hearing her and employees refer to popular votes and Michican/Florida.

I don't think she has given up yet, I can only point out that I havent seen McCaulife or Wolfson on TV in over a week. Maybe they charge by the hour for tv appearances, who knows.....

http://www.truepat.org/

by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:37:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Three weeks (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, that is annoying... but you'll notice what else her surrogates are saying; this ends on June 4th. I'm fine with that.

Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Three weeks (1.50 / 2)

I'm no longer convinced she will show class when it's over. Nothing I've seen from her leads me to expect it.

by Becky G on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This (1.00 / 1)

Look where she took us over the past 16 wks. Giving her 2 wks in Florida and Michigan will RUIN any chance Obama had in those states. Remember 2000 and how they HATED the GOP....well guess what -- Obama's next.

by coonbug on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:34:29 PM EST

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This (none / 0)

History PROVES that MOST campaigns have been SHUT DOWN in FEB of the primary election cycle.

The ONLY reason Hillary is still going is because of WHO she is.

Hillary is trying to shut down Obama in Florida and Michigan -- I say she's OUT for ruining the PARTY's chances in Nov.

by coonbug on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:36:29 PM EST

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This (none / 0)

I love this revisionism and all of a sudden the "if you cant win a state's primary, you can't win in GE"

We should be proud to have had a Primary where the people had the biggest voice ever, but the HRC campaign would love for you to think this was the most disenfrancising primary in history.

Although I am disgusted with many of the players, I am very proud of our party.

We will not only perservere we will wipe the floor with John McCain.
That floor will be squeeky clean.

http://www.truepat.org/

by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:40:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This (none / 0)

Not if she keeps up her attacks in Florida and Michigan over the next two wks.

by coonbug on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This (2.00 / 2)

attacks? You mean count the votes?

those attacks?

lol

by colebiancardi on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

we don't need florida... (none / 0)

(though I hope we get it, obama would have a hard time)

and michigan is rolling our way.

Note that hill's comments on IRAN came after Michigan's primary.

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:15:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This (2.00 / 1)

I was willing to wait till June 3rd until TODAY. She's gone over the line FINALLY.

Keep in mind that she's said she'll stay in until a person has been NOMINATED --- guess what --- that don't happen till Aug.

by coonbug on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:39:43 PM EST

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This (2.00 / 2)

how did she go "over the line"? By doing what other candidates in the past have done?

by colebiancardi on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:47:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

cite me a source? (none / 0)

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This (none / 0)

Seriously, how many replies have you posted to your own diary?

by mattw on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:02:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Scorched Earth (none / 0)

I think she is basically casting doubts on the legitimacy of the Democrats' nominating process. I had just gotten to the point in this campaign where I saw her continuing as an asset to the party, and her as a viable to terrific VP candidate. I'm not so sure now.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/05/21/clint on-makes-baldestboldest-appeal-to-florid a-and-michigan-voters/

by mady on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:46:59 PM EST

Re: SURVEY - Should Supers and Obama End This Proc (none / 0)

If this goes to convention, no matter the nominee, we lose. Convention floor fights lead to GE losses (except FDR who had the great Depression helping his chances).

If Hillary supporters then help McCain in any organized way, she will be seen as leading a Dem loss for her own selfish reasons and will have no chance of ever getting the nomination again.

This is over by mid-June, or so is Hillary's political career.

by IowaMike on Wed May 21, 2008 at 03:51:11 PM EST

we have hit great depression levels with our (2.00 / 1)

economy.

let's hope it doesn't get any WORSE.

Thank you , Bill Clinton, Liar In Chief, for lying about all of our inflation statistics.

The seniors paid for it, you didn't.

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that's patently absurd. (2.00 / 1)

Great Depression levels? How many bread lines are there in America right now? People are suffering, but you insult the Americans who lived through the depression by making such a comparison. The economy will be a major issue in this election but we have to remain honest.

by semiquaver on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:30:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not being absurd. Bear Stearns is gone. (2.00 / 1)

We are four steps away from a global economic collapse (look for the derivatives market to go kablooie).

Wall Street is living in a fantasy world, and you can see that in market behavior.

Also, look at Bernanke -- all of his moves have been to push the next Great Depression onto the next president.

Look at Japan, whose housing went bust in the 1980's. They haven't recovered yet.

Most American households have entirely too much debt, and a good deal of them owe debt on phantom wealth (i.e. houses that aren't worth so much no more).

Okay. Deep Breath. Do you need me to cite some sources? Our economy is really tanking, and you can't push a string. Obama's in for a really hard time of things, worse than FDR because his powder is already wet.

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:35:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'lll restrict this to the US only (none / 0)

because it's easier to discuss one country and after all, this is a US blog.

The unemployment rate in 1933 was twenty-five percent! That's one in four Americans without a job. Right now? less than 5, which is about what it's been for a while. During the depression, the economy absolutely fell through the floor.

Care to cite me a source on how much the GDP decreased lately? I'll do it for you. It actually increased very slightly (0.6%) during the last quarter. This is less growth than in previous years, but the economy does not grow in a depression, it does the opposite, and does it a lot. We haven't even met any single economic definition of a recession yet, so talking about a depression is absolutely ludicrous.

If you're going to argue that we are "four steps away" from a depression, no one will stop you, although some of us may laugh at you behind your back. But "we have hit great depression levels with our economy"? Sorry, but you simply don't know what you're talking about.

I'm worried about the economy too, but crying chicken little won't help anyone.

by semiquaver on Wed May 21, 2008 at 04:57:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When was the last time we lost one of our top five (2.00 / 1)

in wall street?

That's right, the great depression.

When was the last time Wall Street was allowed to get so over leveraged that it is easy tog et eight times credit?

That's right, the Roaring Twenties.

They lied about that expansion, and they've been lying about inflation for YEARS.

That four steps away from a global economic collapse is from a pedigreed professor of economics.

Things ain't lookin' good, and I'm not optimistic.

If you haven't made some backup plans for both dramatic inflation and dramatic deflation, well, humor me and get your ass moving!

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:06:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

People said the same things during (none / 0)

the dot com bubble. It was a lie then and it's a lie now. The economy is cyclical by nature, and those cycles sometimes involve casualties. I'm not denying that we're headed in a bad direction, but that you're wrong by orders of magnitude.

So an anonymous tenured professor says we're about to hit a depression so I should disregard the opinions of the other 99.99% as well as the dictionary definitions of 'recession' and 'depression'?

by semiquaver on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:13:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

where the fuck are you getting that? (2.00 / 1)

obakasama. global economic collapse != depression. is difference. difference includes food riots, I imagine.

http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini/2 52585/

Recession called! Nyaah nyaah. you'll find the stuff on global economic collapse somewhere on that page.

it only gets farfetched after step nine or ten.

No one felt the dot com collapse, just like no one felt this last "expansion" name me another expansion where the median income was flat, and then dropped evne while the expansion was going on?? you won't find it.

phantom growth.

He served in various roles at the Treasury Department, including Senior Advisor to the Under Secretary for International Affairs and Director of the Office of Policy Development and Review (July 1999 - June 2000). Previously, he was a Senior Economist for International Affairs on the Staff of the President's Council of Economic Advisors (July 1998 - July 1999). Currently, Professor Roubini is a Professor at the Stern School of Business at New York University. He has also held teaching positions at Yale University

Nyaah. Yes, I am lazy, and I didn't remember if I could get there without subscription. you have my apologies for not putting down earlier.

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:21:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm done arguing (none / 0)

My original problem was that you said the economy was at "great depression" levels. That's not true, but you've admitted that you meant it is "four steps away". That's not true either, but there's clearly no point in contesting it with you.

by semiquaver on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:27:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nyew! Thank Martin Luther King! (none / 0)

This year he saved the world...

otherwise you'd believe the nice kitty.

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:32:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

just a little spin off google... (2.00 / 1)

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/ 04/stiglitz-worst-recession-since-great. html

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2007/ 04/heebner-biggest-housing-price-decline .html

http://www.groupnewsblog.net/2008/03/gre at-depression-v20-starts-now.html

Bottom line is we have a solvency crisis on our hands.

Not fixable by pouring money on it.

They made bad loans, and they're going under.

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:11:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: just a little spin off google... (none / 0)

Yeah, the subprime mortgage fiasco is no good, and we're probably only at the tip of the iceberg. But whether that will lead to a depression is anyone's guess, and to assert that it undoubtedly will, or especially that it already has, as you did, is irresponsible and betrays a lack of understanding.

from the first link:

"Professor Stiglitz discusses the current economic situation: recession"

From the confidence you project, I'm going to assume you're least a little educated in basic macroeconomics. Open your introductory book on the subject to the index and look up recession. Tell me what it says the definition is.

by semiquaver on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:19:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is negative growth in the GDP. (none / 0)

... never actually had a macroeconomics class. but I read good!

I do think that the US gov't is lying on statistics, and that everyone has already called recession, even if the numbers don't show it just yet.

Expect the stock market to crash when we elect a Democrat!

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:23:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fine, (none / 0)

I too assert that they've been lying about the statistics and we're actually experiencing a million percent growth! Huzzah, free yachts for all!

If you're going to drag conspiracy theories into an argument about economics, the conversation is done.

by semiquaver on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:29:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What the hell is a conspiracy theory? (2.00 / 1)

Bring back the M3!!!

They've been doctoring inflation since carter, and I'm sure I can bring up some good economists to back me up on that one. Hell I'm pretty sure Greenspan was pretty upfront about switching from steak to hamburger.

by BlogSurrogate57 on Wed May 21, 2008 at 05:30:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you even understand how inflation is calculated (none / 0)

You don't need to get your figures from the government, you can calculate them yourselves. Take a standard basket of consumer goods, see how much it costs today. Now compare to how much it would have cost in previous years. Presto, there's inflation. The government isn't the only one to report inflation statistics, lots of universities and NGOs do as well all around the world, which would make the supposed conspiracy a lot harder, wouldn't it?

Like most conspiracy theorists, you believe in them due to a lack of understanding on how the world works.